PODCAST: Modulair bouwen zonder grenzen: flexibiliteit, comfort en duurzaamheid in één oplossing

Transcript

[00:06] Introduction and introduction of guests 
Roel Van Gils: Welcome from the studio of Louwers Mediagroep in Weert. Today we dive deeper into the world of modular solutions. And focus on the future of flexible building. How flexible building is modular building really? What are the differences between the Netherlands and Belgium? And why are more and more companies, schools, care institutions and governments choosing this building method? With me at the table two special guests who know everything about modular building. Welcome Annemiek and Joris. Maybe you can introduce yourself first. 
Annemiek Glorie: Yes, thank you Roel. My name is Annemiek Glorie. I've been working for Algeco for ten years in the role of Regional Brands Manager North. And that means I'm responsible for the three branches, commercially and operationally. And in this, I work together with Joris. 
Joris Billen: Yes, good afternoon. I'm Joris Billen. I've been with Algeco for four years. I'm responsible for the technical part of the organization. This means that I manage the technical office in the Benelux. 

[01:12] Roles and responsibilities within Algeco 
Roel Van Gils: Can you give an example of that or what exactly does that entail? 
Joris Billen: What exactly does that mean? That we actively participate in the development of new units, but that where possible we are also going to fully support the commercial team with making drawings, making budgets, that we also try to work out ad hoc solutions where we actually run into problems at customer sites. Not just for commercial, but we also try to extend that to the whole organization, especially in terms of safety. If there are safety situations, we always do try to intervene and we always try to propose the most appropriate solution possible, eliminating those risks. But that goes on to operations and other departments as well. 
Roel Van Gils: Look at that. Well all right, welcome again. 
Joris Billen: Thank you. 
Roel Van Gils: But first, let's start at the beginning. If you guys have to explain on a birthday what modular solutions, modular units are, what do you say? 

[02:12] What are modular solutions? 
Annemiek Glorie: I always start by explaining that a modular solution is something that you have temporarily and that is flexible. In that, Algeco provides not only the units, but also the bulkhead chain and sheds. And in addition, I explain that we are a market leader worldwide. We are in 25 countries, and with 180 service centers, we can actually provide flexible housing for everyone in all of those countries. 
Joris Billen: I actually try to explain it more using Lego. I always say, we play with big blocks. Blocks that are actually turnkey offices or classrooms or for a healthcare facility, that are delivered from the factory and where we can make buildings from two units to 200 units. So we can actually offer the solutions that the customer needs, both in terms of size, in terms of layout, in terms of finishing. So we can actually offer all kinds of solutions to best serve the customer. 

[03:15] Is modular construction a stopgap solution? 
Roel Van Gils: And then can you see that as a stopgap measure? 
Joris Billen: It's a solution that can serve as an emergency. We have seen that now recently also during some crises we have gone through, such as the COVID and corona crisis in Belgium and the Netherlands, where there was a lot of need for temporary hospitals, but also waiting locations for people who needed to be tested. Then we are indeed talking about real emergency solutions. But I would also like to explain that we are seeing more and more of a shift towards industrial clients, towards schools that really need space. For schools it can still be an emergency solution. But often we also see more and more permanent buildings being placed in modular units. So that means industrial customers who realize that they might grow in the near future, but still want to build in the necessary flexibility to possibly create more space, create less space based on the number of people they employ. 

[04:22] Why is modular building more relevant than ever? 
Roel Van Gils: Joris, you indicated that it's more relevant than ever. Why exactly is modular building more relevant than ever? 
Annemiek Glorie: Because you see that in both countries, in Belgium and the Netherlands, the demand for being flexible and temporary is increasing. We see a lagging when it comes to investment, actually in most of the sectors in which we operate. We're not just talking about construction here, but also industry and the education sector. And there we see particularly that there is a demand, because there is not always investment in permanent premises or permanent housing. So we really only relate the word emergency solution to crisis situations anymore, so a fire or a COVID. But it is much more of a flexible solution where it is becoming more and more relevant. 
Roel Van Gils: But temporary right? 
Annemiek Glorie: Well temporarily, yes. Absolutely temporary. 
Roel Van Gils: Is there a maximum to that? 
Annemiek Glorie: We ourselves maintain: temporary can be one week up to and including five to 10 years. If it is longer than ten years, then we are actually talking about semi-permanent. And other solutions often come into play than just ours. It can be done with our solutions, can certainly be done longer than ten years. 

[05:49] Misconceptions about modular construction 
Roel Van Gils: But you see other players entering the market the moment it becomes semi-permanent. What are the biggest misconceptions actually when it comes to modular solutions? 
Joris Billen: Actually, the biggest misunderstanding regarding modular solutions is that people think it's cheap. In itself, it's not a cheap solution, but there are other advantages that definitely make up for that disadvantage. Namely, for example, the intervention we need to place a modular building is much shorter than a permanent building. We can also guarantee quality better, because modules are placed in a factory environment, so quality can be guaranteed much better. It is also easier to predict costs. The waste produced in producing the units in the factories is usually much lower than the waste produced in a permanent building. So there are much greater advantages than indeed the main disadvantage of actually being costly. 
Annemiek Glorie: Another disadvantage can be that at the moment when you initially put up an emergency building or a temporary modular solution and you think you're going to do that for two years, you've reserved for that as well, and it turns out later that it's going to be four or five years, then you might have been offered another solution with us as well. 
Roel Van Gils: Of buying instead of renting, for example? 
Annemiek Glorie: Yes. So that could be another disadvantage. 

[07:11] Preconceptions about containers and comfort 
Joris Billen: One of the biggest biases what we see from customers is that customers really think a lot that we only deal in containers. They are not containers. Never say container to a unit. Because the comfort we can currently offer with our solutions that we deliver to customers is often equivalent or certainly higher than permanent buildings that do get erected here and there as an alternative. 
Roel Van Gils: Yes, sounds good actually. Take us into one of those modular units. We're at a podcast now, of course, but what can you expect? What are the possibilities? 

[07:52] Opportunities in rental and purchase units 
Joris Billen: The possibilities are endless. Especially in terms of - we actually have two major differences. We have rental units and we have sales units. In rental units, of course, we are bound to some standards that we have determined in advance. For example, there are a fixed number of sanitary units in there relative to a number of offices and so on. But for a buy building we always say: the sky is the limit. So basically anything the customer wants, we can provide. We do work anyway with very good insulation, with the latest materials, also with sufficient focus on the recyclability of the materials after the life cycle. You can think of anything and we can provide it in units. But in the purchase units then. 
Roel Van Gils: Or also in rent? 
Joris Billen: In rental and owner-occupied units. I think one of the last projects we worked on recently, the client wanted an elevator in the middle of the building with a glass staircase going up. 
Roel Van Gils: In the modular unit? 
Joris Billen: In the modular unit. So none of those are actually problems. Of course, those are also solutions that cost a lot of money and also are not just for everyone. Those are not standard products that we can offer in every project. So effectively, if the customer makes the demand for that, we can offer that. But it's not standard and it doesn't happen every day. 
Roel Van Gils: And was that a purchase or a rental solution? 
Joris Billen: That was a buying solution, yes. 

[09:19] When do customers choose to buy or rent? 
Roel Van Gils: Because when do you actually proceed to buy? 
Joris Billen: It actually becomes mainly interesting - there are several factors that come into play with this. One of the biggest factors is of course, we call that capex. And that's the same case for a lot of customers. If there's a lot of capex available, if there's a lot of cash or budget available at the initial start of the project, they often opt to sell. If there is no capex available - because a lot of industrial customers depend on parent companies and have the same situation and are only allocated capex and budgets sparingly, as Annemiek has just explained - then they tend to opt for renting. Why? You can indeed spread the investment over the long term. The duration is one of the points that plays a role in this. 
Annemiek Glorie: So with a rental customer, the moment they know it's going to be longer than two and a half years, then the choice might also be to ask for a purchase building or ask for a purchase offer. 
Roel Van Gils: It's also not like you start with renting and then eventually move to buying? 
Annemiek Glorie: That could be. In that sense, that is not something that is offered very proactively, but that is certainly also one of the possibilities within the structure of finance. 
Joris Billen: And within the financing and capex and the like, it is also possible to offer a lease formula or the like. So that means that the customer also only pays a monthly amount and at the end of the ride, of the four, five, six years, the customer indeed has the possibility to pay a residual amount which does make them the owner of the building. 

[10:59] Customization and comfort 
Roel Van Gils: You just gave an example of such a luxuriously dressed unit. So customization is possible? 
Joris Billen: Customization is possible. And unfortunately this is a podcast, otherwise we could show some pictures or some videos, but it is unseen what is possible in modular construction today. We also very often get the response from the customers that they are bowled over by the quality, the comfort they actually get in the modular solutions. What is also very important to me - I myself have a background in the construction industry, so I have spent a lot of time in my life also in modular units - and it is also important that we give that comfort to the customers. Why? Because very often people who work in those modular units, they sit in a unit eight, nine, 10 hours sometimes a day. And actually you're in those modular units more than you are at home. That's why this is definitely a point of focus, that we try to offer the most comfortable solutions possible to the customer. 

[12:05] Differences between the Netherlands and Belgium 
Roel Van Gils: What are actually the biggest differences between the Dutch and Belgian markets? 
Annemiek Glorie: I think when it comes to the type of customers, we do have the same customers. So both in Belgium and the Netherlands - we are of course a big country in events, both dance and sports events, we have both. Certainly also that industry and education and that construction. I think if you look at the differences, it's particularly if you look at how we are here. The cultural differences that we have, those are positive differences. But how we approach each other, how we deal with clients. But I think if we look at the requests we get, we see the difference that in the industry in Belgium that demand right now for certain buildings is for high-end buildings. And if we look at the industry in the Netherlands, we're still in a lower segment there and we put the high segment away mainly in schools, nurseries and hospitals in the Netherlands. And I think there is a difference there at the moment. If we look at the pharmaceutical industry, which is many times larger in Belgium than in the Netherlands, we also see a difference. 
Roel Van Gils: But higher quality, so more comfort? 
Annemiek Glorie: Yes, more luxurious. Really more luxurious. 

[13:29] Technical differences and legislation 
Joris Billen: Indeed. But then that's more my store. Of course, there are also technical differences and differences in legislation between Belgium and the Netherlands. Concerning for example: in Belgium we have the EPB conformity. So that means that buildings have to meet certain regulations regarding insulation, renewable energy and the like. That legislation is different in Belgium and the Netherlands. In the Netherlands, those rules are a bit more flexible compared to Belgium. So in Belgium, a building has to be EPB compliant from two years of rent or two years on site. 
Roel Van Gils: So it's the same as a permanent building? 
Joris Billen: That is the same regulation as a permanent building. In the Netherlands that only applies from a period of 15 years. 
Roel Van Gils: Fifteen? 
Annemiek Glorie: Yes. And we have in the Netherlands - build and install everything according to Bouwbesluit. So we have to comply with that. And in addition, for industry, we follow the rules of Deltalinqs, for example. So therein, yes, the legislation is really a big difference between the Netherlands and Belgium and sometimes a challenge for us as a company. 
Roel Van Gils: Is that also a difference in the dressing or in the insulation standard? 
Joris Billen: We try to work as much as possible with the same standard units within the Benelux and in the whole section everywhere. The only big difference we have when we go to transport units from Belgium to the Netherlands is something very small and annoying, but that is the sockets. In the Netherlands we have sockets with earthing, in Belgium it's with pin earthing. So Holland connects more with Germany, while Belgium actually connects with the regulations in France. 
Roel Van Gils: So you can't just exchange them then actually? 
Joris Billen: No, in itself it's also a small operation. It actually doesn't take long to change the outlets - I think we have about six, seven outlets per unit - so I think in an hour everything is changed. 
Annemiek Glorie: But it has to be changed, crucially so. The moment you get the wrong one, you wouldn't want that. So electricity is an important one. 

[15:47] Pride projects and Fire-X development 
Roel Van Gils: Can you maybe share a project that you are proud of or that you say, wow, this is really a showpiece? 
Annemiek Glorie: Yes, I do want to share a project we did in the Netherlands. That's a school in Soest. And we installed that school with a new Fire-X unit. What you see in the Netherlands, but also in Belgium, there is more and more demand for it, but also the requirements set that, enforce that. When it comes to fire resistance. And here we have built a school, two-story, secondary school, with a learning square in it, with classrooms in it, with a high finish in terms of insulation, but also in terms of ventilation. Which, of course, also became very much a hot topic after the COVID period. 
Roel Van Gils: Especially in schools, of course. 
Annemiek Glorie: Especially in schools, with many children in a class. And here you're also talking about temporary, two, two and a half years, but the comfort you have to have. Because you have to go there every day. And then it's very nice if you have a nice learning environment. And this is one of our prestige projects at the moment, which we are very proud of in the Netherlands. 
Roel Van Gils: But you probably have that in Belgium as well, Joris. 
Joris Billen: I don't really have one favorite project in Belgium. I think, I'm especially proud of our last introduced unit that you already mentioned. That's specifically the Fire-X. Why? Because we really do have a weapon there that we can arm ourselves with for in the future. So really a unit where we've bet heavily on the insulation, but also on - now I'm really explaining technically - the thermal breaks in the different shell parts. Where we really focused on acoustics, very important also point, where we also bet on modular solutions within our modular units for ventilation, for emergency lighting and so on. So in that area, I think that in all the projects that we have done so far, we have received really positive feedback from the customers everywhere, that it is really a solution that they themselves also want to invest in further in the future. For example, what we have also added to that is we have a modular package of solar panels. So what we can actually deliver with the truck, we can just go put on the unit at the customer's site. It's actually a plug-and-play system that allows us to add renewable energy to these units as well. So surely that's something I'm most proud of what we've accomplished over the last few years. 

[18:32] Sustainability and standardization in Europe 
Roel Van Gils: With that, you are actually already bridging the gap towards sustainability and the future. So that's really your state of the art, latest development, that unit you just mentioned, that solution. 
Annemiek Glorie: Yes, and it is this unit that is also going to be deployed globally, or at least Europa-wise. So that's also something very nice that of course eventually you're going to go for when you make the link to sustainability. If we are going to have the same type of unit within all those countries, you can think - just apart from electricity - but you can think that we can exchange units much more easily, that we can be much more cost-efficient and therefore much more sustainable by deploying it in a different way. And in addition, we also see a lot of requests from the market when it comes to, for example, rainwater collection, graywater, so that you get rid of a solution that we now often do with clean water tanks, dirty water tanks. The moment you think of that, that you have to fill that every time, replenish it, replace it, when you can actually do it with a collection system, then the possibilities are endless. Anything you can think of for the home, we can eventually do in a unit. So we're already working with heat pumps in certain situations as well. But also at the moment, for example, a number of projects at Schiphol Airport where particulate matter plays a role, where we are working with overpressure systems in the unit, so that we can be one hundred percent sure that the particulate matter stays outside. And those are really developments for the future. 

[20:03] Choices and procurement 
Roel Van Gils: But then as a customer, do you actually have a menu of choices of this is what I want, this is what I want, this, this and this, and this all fits on the unit? 
Joris Billen: Yes, that is indeed true. But I do have to say, usually clients come to us with what they need. So they come to us: we need offices for seventy people. We need dressing rooms for x number of people. And it has to meet this, this, this and this. And then we start trying to puzzle within the standard solutions that we have available. Which of our products qualify the most in the technical area, but also economically. Then we are going to try to see with the customer: okay, what is feasible, what is not feasible? And so we're going to try to offer, of course, the best possible solution to the customer. But very much - we certainly see the evolution also in the specifications of the various contracting authorities - that emphasis is placed much more on sustainability. So in a lot of cases: contracting authorities often have different criteria on which projects are awarded. And more and more you see that sustainability or the green aspect of the modular units becomes more and more a decision factor in the whole process. So going forward, I expect that's only going to come more and more. 
Roel Van Gils: With green aspect of course it's also in the reuse right? Because a unit like that is also reused when it comes back from a project? Can that be done one on one? 
Annemiek Glorie: Well, the moment we put out a project and we pick it up again, it comes back to us in one of the service centers. And there is a team of people there who check the unit. They look at what needs to be replaced or what can be reused. And what we have implemented very well in both countries is that - as Joris said in the beginning - we are like Lego blocks. And with that, we can also play with the walls, doors, windows. We can click those in and out. And from that we also have a - we call it ourselves - a refurbishing line in the service centers. Where we say, okay, a wall within a unit is no longer good. What parts can we reuse from that? Can we put new in that way? Units have an average lifespan of thirty years. So basically we do a lot of maintenance on our products. 

[22:31] Production and service centers 
Joris Billen: We actually do have to take into account that after those thirty years, about ninety percent of all the materials in that unit will actually be recycled. That's also kind of important to know. 
Roel Van Gils: Where are they produced? 
Joris Billen: We produce them in the Czech Republic, France and Spain. 
Annemiek Glorie: Those are our own factories. They work for all of Europe. But as I said, 25 countries. So we are also in other countries, but this is just for Europe. Those from Benelux are also made in those three different factories. And there the choice is made who has time. So it works on time slots. 
Roel Van Gils: Who may deliver? 
Annemiek Glorie: Those may deliver, yes. That's where we will then order. 
Roel Van Gils: And in each country, so in the Netherlands and in Belgium, do you have service centers? 
Annemiek Glorie: Yes. There are 180 as I said all over the world. And we have two service centers in Belgium and three in the Netherlands. In Belgium we are talking about Beringen and Perwez. And in the Netherlands we talk about Den Bosch - that's where the bulkhead chain and the sheds are made and prepared - and Beverwijk and Moerdijk are also unit locations, the same as in Belgium. 

[23:40] Bulkhead chain and sheds 
Roel Van Gils: You just mentioned bulkhead chain and sheds indeed. We talked mostly about modular units. Could you maybe elaborate on that as well? 
Annemiek Glorie: Yes. In the Netherlands and Belgium, we can offer two other solutions for modular construction and for temporary solutions. Actually wooden buildings that you can build from six meters up to twenty-five meters. Two layer, three layer. 
Roel Van Gils: The actual construction shack actually. 
Annemiek Glorie: The actual construction shack as people know it. And those are used a lot in construction combinations and infra projects. And in addition to that, we have sheds. And those are sheds that - yes, Romney sheds, but that's a brand name - but they're round sheds, so to speak. So those you also see a lot in industry. In the Netherlands we very often say: where Freddy Heineken was held during the kidnapping. 
Roel Van Gils: Do they know that in Belgium as well? 
Annemiek Glorie: I think so. No. That's before George's time, I think, Roel. But those sheds are also offered by us as a solution. 

[24:45] Looking to the future 
Roel Van Gils: And just a quick look toward the future, so to speak. Where will we be in five or ten years? 
Joris Billen: In five to 10 years I just expect that the regulations on modular construction - not just modular construction but permanent construction - are only going to become more stringent. So we're talking now about certain U-values for insulation. Those are going to become much more stringent. The amount of renewable energy we need per square meter of building area is going to go up. So the regulations regarding sustainability or energy legislation are only going to get stricter. But on the other hand, the advantage that we obviously have as part of a large group: innovation and development of new units is not standing still. So we are now in a finalization phase for launching the new Fire-X throughout Europe. But that does not mean that we are not already going on behind the scenes and starting to think about: okay, we have now launched this, what is the next step? So we're now looking at: are we going to add additional improvements to an existing unit or are we just going to start from scratch and develop a new unit with an eye on longer life or with a focus on what will the standards be in ten years? So a working group is going to be put together soon where specialists from different countries are going to discuss and debate what will the standards be in five to 10 years. And we will work with that to bring another whole new product to the market within two, three years. 
Annemiek Glorie: And I also think, as Joris outlines it from the Algeco side, what I see on the commercial side, on the customer side, is that customers are inviting us and in which we are very much looking for cooperation with large construction customers in the Netherlands as an example. Where we look together to the future, because they also have to meet all kinds of requirements. And also very much looking at the housing of the future. People who leave school now and want to work for big companies - we all want the best and the best staff - but at the end of the day, of course, you yourself want to be in a very pleasant working environment. So we are working a lot with clients to hear from them: what are their wishes and how do you see the future? And to respond to that together. 

[27:36] European regulation 
Roel Van Gils: And do you also expect the laws and regulations to be equalized at some point? 
Joris Billen: I do expect, because we see that more and more also comes from Europe, that in time - probably one of the coming years - there will be a European regulation that regulates this. Because what we have now learned, also with the introduction of our previous new unit, is that at the moment there are different regulations everywhere in all European countries regarding energy and energy efficiency and renewable energy. 

[28:17] What should listeners remember? 
Roel Van Gils: If listeners should remember one thing about modular solutions, what is it? 
Annemiek Glorie: I think if it's one thing, the possibilities are endless. And that anything you desire can actually be done in a modular solution. Whether it's a unit, a bulkhead shack or a shed. 
Roel Van Gils: Also in the bulkhead chain? 
Annemiek Glorie: We can also do that in the bulkhead chain. And also even in sheds, yes. So anything is possible. Listeners should remember that. 
Joris Billen: What I would like to pass along is that modular construction is certainly not the same as the containers we used to talk more about. It's really a very high level of comfort, a very high level of energy efficiency. And we can actually, as Annemiek also points out, offer everything that the customer wants. The advantage we have also within Algeco is that we consider ourselves a one-stop shop. So even things that we don't have in our range, we will go into the market ourselves and try to offer those solutions to the customer as well. So it's actually a very good alternative for permanent construction, for customers who don't have the budget to buy right away. But it's really not comparable to the construction containers of the past. 
Roel Van Gils: And so you're referring to ventilation systems, solar panels, for example? 
Joris Billen: Yes, tables, chairs, televisions, plants. 
Annemiek Glorie: Acoustic panels, podcast studio. Well really, it can't be that crazy. 
Roel Van Gils: And why should you choose Algeco? 
Annemiek Glorie: I think because we are the global market leader and therefore have the knowledge in all areas. 
Joris Billen: And I think, we're just the best. 
Roel Van Gils: I completely concur with that. 

[30:26] One Benelux 
Roel Van Gils: And finally I understood that you are also going together, the Netherlands and Belgium. That's still in the pipeline, isn't it? 
Annemiek Glorie: Since January 1, we have been building one Benelux. In which we see a lot of advantages. In which we can ultimately serve the customer better. Among other things with a technical agency, but also with a much broader market of customers. Where we can learn from each other. So yes, we are one Benelux as of January 1. 
Roel Van Gils: Well, beautiful. Congratulations. 
Annemiek Glorie: Thank you very much. 
Roel Van Gils: And thank you for your input. 
Joris Billen: Thank you very much, too. 
Annemiek Glorie: Very much appreciated.